<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: miande

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: jumbofrank



I love the Polaris 4x4 system. My best friend rides a Grizzly 660 and there are times I just cruise through a mudhole in 4x4 and he gets stuck in it in 4x4. Then once he's stopped he has to push a button, flip a lever, and push another button to lock it in. After he finally gets through the hole he has to stop, push a button, flip a lever, and push a button to unlock it before he can go fast again and catch up to me. His engine is 1/3 bigger than mine so he can go a little faster than me but my 4x4 system is better IMO. Even in 4x4 lock he got bogged down in some mud holes I went through because his stock tires were so crappy. That even happened when I only had 25" tires too. YMMV.</end quote></div>



Your friend doesn't have to stop to switch into diff lock, or 3WD for that matter. They suggest that you be under 15mph before switching into 3WD and under 10MPH before switching into diff lock. It is a safety thing as the engagement could affect handling.
.</end quote></div>

Technically speaking, maybe he doesn't have to stop, except he can't do all that button pushing and lever flipping while riding, and do it all before he gets into the the $h!t. Sometimes we come around a corner and there's no time for him to shift on the fly before we get into it. If you have to slow down to under 10 mph you may as well stop anyway. Once it's locked in it does pretty good but he always stops on both sides of the big mud holes to fiddly fart around with it while I just fly through it. Both systems work but On-Demand is simpler than On-Command. I wonder how Yamaha came up with that (copycat [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]) name?

 

While riding this weekend I think I accidently fiqured out a way to lock the front end in and keep it locked. It could be beneficial sometimes,most times it wouldn't. Recognizing it is locked up and knowing how to get it unlocked is probably more important than how to lock it. Anyway, I was attempting to climb a very steep hill in reverse,AWD on. Close to the top the tires started spinning,causing the machine to go crooked and I had to abort the climb as there was now a tree in my path. I shifted into low and eased out on the brake(adc off) and desended the hill. When I did I could tell the front end was braking as well as the rear. Additionally I could tell by the steering,and general feel of the machine that the front was locked in. The further I continued forward the more it felt bound up(front locked in and trying to turn slower than the rear). I swithed AWD off but it was still engaged. With AWD off I put it in reverse and backed up and almosty immediately I felt it disengage.
So this led me to do some research to see if it was normal operation. Some of you may have noticed this characteristic before,I had not.

If found this:

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: NLATVGuy

BEGIN QUOTE FROM SNOWRIDE OF ATVFRONTIER.COM:

One of the drawbacks to the Hilliard clutch that Polaris uses for 4x4 is that there is no engine braking on the front tires (only the rear) Here's a little trick.


I copied this from another forum. It is an e-mail straight to hillard corporation who supplies Polaris.


I wrote to Matt Cowen, the Engineering Product Manager at Hilliard Corporation and asked a few questions about the Hilliard Overrunning Clutch used in the Sportsman ATV's.

First my questions, followed by the response from Hilliard with their permission to share the information:

1) I regularly engage the AWD clutch for 4-wheel engine braking by causing the rear wheels to slip in reverse, stopping, then putting the machine in forward before descending the hill. Will this harm the clutch at all?

2) When I perform the above maneuver the clutch remains engaged, even while powering forward, until I switch off the AWD engaging coil. Is this normal operation for the clutch?

3) Is there a way to engage the clutch prior to wheel-spin, allowing me on-demand AWD?

----

Mr. Anderson,

The condition that you are asking about above is called "wedging". What you are doing is locking the rolls in the reverse profile of the clutch (it is a bi-directional clutch set-up) and proceeding in the forward direction thus not allowing the clutch to overrun (which is the normal condition). This in turn locks up the drive train and makes the system steer like a fully locked differential. This condition is

Advantageous if going down a steep hill because it will only allow the front wheels to move as fast as the drive train. This will fully utilize the engine brake because when going downhill the weight distribution of the bike goes to the front end and that is where you want the majority of your traction.


This "wedging" will not hurt the front gear case, but it could accelerate the wear of the the drive train components (such as the front prop shaft) because it does completely bind up the system and the bike

will be very difficult to steer. Because of the binding and additional steering effort, neither Hilliard nor Polaris will recommend doing this.


You can get the system out of the "wedging" condition without turning the power off to the AWD system, but it is very difficult and

not always repeatable. The only true, 100% way to release the clutch is to turn the power off and put the bike in reverse. This will release the pressure on the clutch and the springs inside the clutch will return

the rollers back to the neutral position.


To answer #3, there is no way to drive the front wheels at the same time as the rear wheels without the rear wheels slipping. The bike is geared to have a 20% speed difference from the back to the front.

This means that it takes the rear wheel to slip or spin 20% (1/5th of a rear tire revolution) before the front wheel to drive the system. This is necessary to give the bike a tight turning radius and to prevent the bike from automatically "wedging". If the front to rear ratio was 1:1, every time you turn the handle bars even slightly, the front wheels would act like they have a fully locked differential and it would take

you 30 feet to turn a 90 degree turn (like driving a new Kawasaki Prarie with the front gearcase locked). Becuase when you turn, all of the wheels on the bike are now moving at different speeds dictated by the ground speed, and the front clutch would not be able to overrun. With the 20% speed difference, the AWD can be on all the time and it will only be there when you need it. You won't get any of the side effects

of all the other systems that don't allow you to turn the 4wd on and off. Basically, having the front wheels driving the same speed as the rear wheels would be like driving a tank and would be hard on the arms

and not very fun.


I hope I have answered all of your questions and not confused you to much. Browse through the overrunning clutch section on the Hilliard web site (www.hilliardcorp.com) for more info on how overrunning clutches work if you have any more questions. Have a good day.


Thanks,

Matt Cowen

Engineering Product Manager

Drive Train Products

Hilliard Corporation


phone: (607) 733-7121 ext. 376

fax: (607) 733-1045
END QUOTE FROM SNOWRIDE OF ATVFRONTIER.COM:</end quote></div>

 

The old style Polaris 4x4 did that a lot. I had it happen backing uphill in 4x4 and backing up in mud in 4x4. Sometimes it would only lock one of the front hubs when you go forward. That made steering it interesting. Back then the owner's manual told you all about it and said to back up and shake the bars from side to side. With the newer 4x4 system I don't think it locks up very often.

 

It seems it still does it,but only if you spin in reverse,then go forward. iI is really easy to unlock though. Just switch out of AWD and put it in reverse an back up a little.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: jumbofrank

The old style Polaris 4x4 did that a lot. I had it happen backing uphill in 4x4 and backing up in mud in 4x4. Sometimes it would only lock one of the front hubs when you go forward. That made steering it interesting. Back then the owner's manual told you all about it and said to back up and shake the bars from side to side. With the newer 4x4 system I don't think it locks up very often.</end quote></div>


That was one of them there 3 chain 6 sprockets set up.I was slidden around in snow and that kicked in scared the crap out of me,made this horrible screech noise and engaged.For me you have to press reverse override,then go 4x4 and it will go 4x4 in reverse.But heres a concept for ya'll give me a system where you press a button and 4x4 is there,no waiting for a 1/4 of a wheel to spin.

 

I amaze even myself heres an Idea[img]i/expressions/light.gif[/img] Snow mode:transfer,100% of the power to the front wheels,and with an optional lock for posi traction.Gosh sometimes I amaze even myself.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: scrambler400enoge


That was one of them there 3 chain 6 sprockets set up.I was slidden around in snow and that kicked in scared the crap out of me,made this horrible screech noise and engaged.For me you have to press reverse override,then go 4x4 and it will go 4x4 in reverse.But heres a concept for ya'll give me a system where you press a button and 4x4 is there,no waiting for a 1/4 of a wheel to spin.</end quote></div>

You're drinkin' aren't ya? lol
That's another plus IMO on the XP...no need to push a button to get 4x4 in reverse.
If you can detect any rear wheel spin before the front engages on a new Sportsman you would be the 1st person I have seen say that. How does the '96 scrammy do?...
I've ridden one,but it was back in,oh.. 1996,that's probably the year I almost killed myself on a Scrambler...one of those years back in the 90's. I think it was the first year. It didn't like it when locked the brakes up and turned it sideways on gravel trying to avoid ending up in the middle of a highway. Well I didn't stop in time..sliding sideways at say 30-40 mph and then getting instant traction isn't good.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: HIGHOCTANE

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: scrambler400enoge





That was one of them there 3 chain 6 sprockets set up.I was slidden around in snow and that kicked in scared the crap out of me,made this horrible screech noise and engaged.For me you have to press reverse override,then go 4x4 and it will go 4x4 in reverse.But heres a concept for ya'll give me a system where you press a button and 4x4 is there,no waiting for a 1/4 of a wheel to spin.</end quote></div>



You're drinkin' aren't ya? lol

That's another plus IMO on the XP...no need to push a button to get 4x4 in reverse.

If you can detect any rear wheel spin before the front engages on a new Sportsman you would be the 1st person I have seen say that. How does the '96 scrammy do?...

I've ridden one,but it was back in,oh.. 1996,that's probably the year I almost killed myself on a Scrambler...one of those years back in the 90's. I think it was the first year. It didn't like it when locked the brakes up and turned it sideways on gravel trying to avoid ending up in the middle of a highway. Well I didn't stop in time..sliding sideways at say 30-40 mph and then getting instant traction isn't good.</end quote></div>


The engagement is noisy( probably because I haven't oiled the chains in a while)But when it's locked it's locked.If I do a burnout in the snow and get the rears spinin the front will engage pretty quickly.The one issue I have with it is when you put it in 4 wheel drive your breaks disappear[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] On these old ones when the front kicks in you know it.But just pressing the button no issue no jerking or load noises.

 

I had my first occasion to really test the AWD system on my 500 HO this evening. I had to pull my daughter's bofriends S-10 up the hill in front of our house - The street is a solid sheet of ice. I was able to pull him with just a little initial wheel slip. I was amazed at the control I had in L 4wd. It is a truly amazing system, the only other 4X4 expierence that I had was with a Honda Foreman. It is a night and day difference.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Pedge1

I had my first occasion to really test the AWD system on my 500 HO this evening. I had to pull my daughter's bofriends S-10 up the hill in front of our house - The street is a solid sheet of ice. I was able to pull him with just a little initial wheel slip. I was amazed at the control I had in L 4wd. It is a truly amazing system, the olly other 4X4 expierence that I had was with a Honda Foreman. It is a night and day difference.</end quote></div>



Always remember honda's are three wheelers.